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Matt Chatterley started this by asking a couple of questions. The following discussion (of which only a part of the posts are used here) touched on the subject on the perception of PK by the victim and on ways to enforce no PK rules within the game. The second subject inspired other threads later.
Matt Chatterley
1- Is it possible to get players to treat death from another player differently to death from a monster, or NPC of some sort, that attacked them in a similar manner?
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This introduces the common argument of reasonable behaviour. This is an emotional argument and as such hard to refute
Marian Griffith
Many players will be mildly upset when they're attacked for no reason by another player. In fact, the standard excuse for PK on many muds is that it allows players to take revenge for being attacked by others.
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Matt Chatterley
Hmm, I think you're right on the last - and also the first now I think. You're not going to automatically connect that Fred is hitting you because you stole his bread a while ago. You might of course, then it's more excusable. As a side note: it should be possible to attack and fight with things, without killing them, and this is also going to be available for a player to teach another player a "lesson" without a sharp point.
(Marian Griffith)
There are many players who will not see any difference between being killed by a player or being killed by a monster. Others, like me, won't feel it is the same. As long as you provide meaningfull reasons to fights (and thereby ways to avoid those fights!) it is not so bad. What particularly rankles is being attacked for no apparent (or valid) reason.
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Matt Chatterley
Yeah. The inherent problem here of course, is many players attack NPCs for no reason at all, and the same to other players. Things would be different if you are to be equally reprimanded for killing an NPC or player in a town, and not at all outside (unless they or their guild come after you in retribution). Guild behaviour will be encouraged (ie: Fred killed John, are we gonna let him get away with that?!).
This uses the argument of revenge as a reason for allowing pk. While probably valid it is also, in part, a circular argument. Being attacked and killed by other players is one of the reasons to allow players to attack and kill others.
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Adam Wiggings
Yes. Well, of course, they aren't attacking characters (PC or NPC) for no reason, they are attacking them in order to get money, experience, and equipment. Take away this motivation, make combat extremely chancey, and suddenly there's much less reason to attack other people. On top of this, make the characters be more interested in the world around them by giving them actual political and/or social tie-ins.
Here is touched on the subject that in games that focus entirely on combat players are likely to deal with anything by fighting it. It also addresses in a round-about way the issue of reasons for being attacked.
Make it so that the hometown for the player's race really is a home to them. Some place they can always go for food, healing, repairs, safety among their fellows, etc etc. If you attack members of your own race (player or npc), you're branded an outcast and tossed out into the big bad world with no more help from that quarter.
Other things along this line: allow players to own shops and taverns in town. If someone knocks over the shop, then they have an actual player to reckon with.If someone aids the shopkeeper when someone else is attacking it, have the shopkeeper remember their name and relay it to the PC when she returns. Now there's a real motivation to help out NPCs who aren't even of your same race or have any special relation to you.
(Matt Chatterley)
2- I fully intend to permit PK (and treat it as near to killing NPCs as possible). For instance, attacking anything in a town (except invaders) will be considered a crime - obviously less serious if it's a creature of
some kind, but a shopkeeper would be treated the same as another player.
Marian did not respond to the original question here. The subject of law enforcement is sufficiently interesting that it draws a lot of discussion on its own. Also the topic raised by Matt here is discussed in depth in other threads.
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Marian Griffith
Most towns would have a law to forbid carrying weapons openly. Unless you are a guard or a -very- noble visitor or inhabitant. The amount of damage you can do with a simple eating knife is far less. And those fights are easier to break up for the guards.
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Matt Chatterley
Absolutely. Weapons are to be sheathed (possibly simply represented by unwielded), or put away upon entry, and being caught with a weapon openly in view is a punishable offence.
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Adam Wiggins
The trick is to be careful with this. I've seen this implemented plenty of times but never well. The main problem is that you often end up doing this:
] kill gatekeeper
You start thumping on the gatekeeper with your fists.
] draw sword
You draw your sword.
You slash the gatekeeper, who dies from the blow.
] open gate
But your hands are full with your sword!
] growl
You growl.
] sheathe sword
You sheathe your sword.
] open gate
You open the gate.
(Matt Chatterley)
Dodgy characters (if you've been in trouble here before) may well be asked to surrender weapons at the gates.
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Adam Wiggins
You could have a number of different towns, which range from completely lawless outposts where you can do what you please to highly fortified cities which allow no weapons whatsoever within their gates. The later is more hassle, but if you want to go about your business without fearing that some ruffian is going to cut you down in hopes that you have a few coppers in your purse, it's kind of nice.
Another important issue is touched here: Give players a certain degree of control over the risks they want to take. Part of the thing that annoys people about pk is the apparent unfairness of it. A player can not usually avoid being attacked in the way they can avoid dangerous areas.
Other ideas: only citizens can carry weapons, and then only those that are registered. Restrictions on types of weapons (for instance, no blades) or areas of the town where you can go with them. And so forth - there's no reason at all that it should be the same in every town.
(Matt Chatterley)
In responding to an armed conflict, guards will not worry about applying lethal force. In an unarmed conflict, they'll be friendlier, and join in to break it up. Or relatively unarmed, anyway.
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Adam Wiggins
Yeah. I've always wanted to be able to get into fistfights in bars or other less intense combat situations, but in general there is no particular distinction between lethal and non-lethal combat.
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